The Russian Presidential Aide and head of the Russian negotiating group with Ukraine also said that recently the Russian Military Historical Society handed over several thousand books to the institutions where Ukrainian prisoners of war are being held, including textbooks on the history of Russia in the 20th century and pamphlets about Bandera
Unlike Russian state media, western media is independent and not beholden to their government, but nice try.
You cannot be serious. You know Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post, right? What do you think is happening here?
The only difference between Russian State media and our media, is that the western ruling class is savvy enough to launder their propaganda through privately owned media.
It’s absolutely terrible that so many American media is owned by billionaires, but that’s not all of western media, and it’s still not the same as Russian state media.
I still don’t get why so many people here are so desperate to defend the state-controlled media of a brutal dictatorship.
Russia is no more a “brutal dictatorship” than the US is, or the UK, or any number of other capitalist shithole countries that call themselves “democracies.” Russian state media is no worse than, for example, the BBC or CNN. But more importantly, it does not have the global reach that the BBC and CNN have. The key thing that you’re utterly failing to understand here is that Russia does not have the global hegemony that the US has (and NATO in general, though NATO is just a collection of vassal states subservient to US capital). Russian state media cannot begin to compete on the global stage with the overwhelming stranglehold that western media has over not only their own domestic populations but the rest of the world. We here in the west are not saturated day in and day out by Russian propaganda, but we absolutely are by western capital (which is synonymous with US state) propaganda. Pretending like this is an even playing field is absurd and it’s why no one here is taking your whining about eBiL RuZzIaN media seriously. It’s not about “defending” Russian media, it’s about recognizing geopolitical reality.
Surely you must recognise how ridiculous that claim is.
Sure, Trump would love for it to be true, and he’s certainly trying to, but even in the US, you can still publicly say this, while in Russia, you’d be headed for prison. Putin’s political opponents frequently fall out of windows or catch some polonium poisoning.
These things are not the same, and pretending they are, makes you blind to how much worse they can still get. Russia is absolutely more of a brutal dictatorship than even the US, but especially than most European countries.
I’m not denying the toxic influence of money either, but that’s still not comparable to the hold Putin has over his country and his media.
Hmm… I wonder what happened to the original leadership of BLM? And hey, what are Fred Hampton and Mark Clark up to these days? Has Gary Webb published any articles recently?
Oh believe me, I am well aware how bad they can get, you’re just completely unaware of how bad they’ve already been. You believe all these lies about how terrible Russia is, looking at it only through the lens that western propagandists have carefully cultivated for you without realizing that every accusation they’ve levied on their enemies is a confession about what they themselves have been doing all along. You’re as intellectually domesticated by US imperialist interests as any diehard Kremlin-supporting Russian citizen, only you have the benefit of being on the side that enjoys global hegemony without even understanding what that word means. You’re all up in arms about the lies of the media of an enemy state without having even an ounce of self awareness about the lies of the media you’re consuming, the very same media from which you think you’ve learned how uniquely bad the enemy’s media is.
I don’t even live in the US. I live in Europe, and I’m concerned about the freedom and safety of my fellow human beings, and I’m disgusted by how US imperial interests have suddenly decided to embrace Putin and is turning against Europe.
My side is not enjoying global hegemony. I only wish Europe asserted itself against wannabe hegemons like the US and Russia, but political leaders here are too cowardly for that.
I see American media increasingly parroting Putin’s viewpoints, because of this American realignment, and that’s what you’re asking me to blindly accept? No, fuck that. You talk a lot about others being controlled by propaganda, but I don’t see an ounce of self awareness in you.
The leaders in Europe are all financial capitalists who invested a lot of capital into US financial system. Even if European people face hunger tomorrow, their assets are secured at US banks. For this reason, they don’t care whether they sign deals that are unfavorable to the European people.
We definitely should elect better leaders, that’s for sure. These have to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing. It takes too much effort, and it’s going way too slowly, but they can be moved. They’ve moved somewhat (not enough) on Ukraine, Gaza and even the environment, all due to popular pressure, but they need to move a lot further. People need to stop voting for the right wing idiots they keep electing.
Europe is part of the empire of usa
That’s certainly what they want you to accept. What Putin wants you to believe. But this is clearly a case where US and European interests diverge. Trump wants to play nice with Putin while waging his economic war on Europe and the rest of the world, while Europe is trying to stop or slow Russian aggression. And degrading itself trying to keep Trump onboard.
It’s a mess, but defending against aggression is still better than surrendering to it. Europe needs to learn to stand on its own feet.
You seem to endlessly fall back on this, have you noticed? Just raw Appeals to Personal Incredulity.
I always start out believing people are capable of critical thought and self awareness, until they prove otherwise. Plenty of that in this discussion, unfortunately.
Should I just accept that you’re incapable of critical thought or grasping meaningful nuance?
Why do you reddit losers always talk like wannabe anime villains?
I guess that answers that.
Please, go on. I’d love to hear more.
…or just accuse me of something I wasn’t doing. You’re definitely someone who approaches things in good faith, unlike the Russians.
Read the rest of the discussion. To me, you come across as part of a mob trying to defend Russian state media. And yes, arguing that all of western media, despite its freedom of the press, diversity of ownership and various degrees of editorial independence, is just as bad as Russian state media, is defending it.
I’m not arguing that all of western media is perfect; much of it is corrupt (especially in the US, but that is not all of the west). But not all of it is that bad. And even the corrupt ones frequently disagree with each other. That gives us access to much more diverse reporting than Russian state media provides.
I am aware that making sense of that diversity requires critical thought, which is in increasingly short supply in recent years.
Also note that the link you shared, of Trump flanked by billionaires, comes from western media.
And I’m saying that’s a problem with your reading comprehension; not the content of my argument. Especially because I never defended Russian state media. I too think state media is bad. The difference between you and I is that I’m not fooled by the corporate proxy that is western media.
Again, go on…
And yet you seem to struggle to explain how it’s so “diverse.” What’s diverse about it? Who are the non-corrupt Western sources? Please tell me, since I’m so stupid 😕
And that’s only something you’re reading into this. I’m well aware of the problems with western media. Some of them are notorious for their lies, many are corporate controlled, and especially in the US, refuse to even acknowledge anti corporate sentiment (see how US media struggled to make sense of Luigi Mangione, for example), but they’re fairly transparent about it, and and sometimes they really are telling the truth.
With some critical thinking, you can actually discern the truth out of that, without having to resort to Russian state media’s reports on the disastrous war Russia is waging.
This you?
“Independent” western media? I’d sooner find a unicorn
Tell me who NRC is beholden to, then.
NRC is beholden to the massive corporate conglomerate Mediahaus, which is, in turn, beholden to the Belgian oligarch Thomas Leysen.
They’ve got a strict separation between ownership and editors, though. They regularly go against the grain and report deeper than merely repeating the convenient narrative.
Sure, capitalism and independent media don’t go together well, but state control and i dependent media are an even worse combination, and on the scale of what’s possible, NRC is doing quite well. Certainly much better than Tass.
No they don’t. Ultimately ownership chooses who works there.
How did you determine this?
Pure vibes based statement.
How did you determine the this? Because it tells you narratives that agree with your world view?
I read and compare. When Maccabi supporters were picking fights with Arab taxi drivers in Amsterdam, they didn’t blindly repeat the government story about pogroms but told what really happened, a story that eventually won out. They’ve never shied away from stories inconvenient to any government or corporate interest, as long as it’s based in facts.
They’re highly regarded for their objectivity.
If you want to attack them, you’ve got to come up with more than vibes.
And the fact that you’re baselessly attacking them while defending Tass, is outright ridiculous.
How did you determine what “really happened”?
How did you determine that? You don’t know what stories they elect not to run.
By who? People who agree with their bias?
Mate, you’re the one who’s been making claims based on vibes. I’m not the one just asserting that they’re objective and honest without evidence.
Strawman
Finally a productive question. You listen to all the sides. You listen to independent media on the ground. You don’t just cling to whatever story happens to fit your worldview, but you consider the different stories and watch what adds up and what doesn’t. Who leaves out what details to better fit their narrative and who tells the whole thing.
And sure, that means you’ve got to do some work. Put in some actual critical thought. And yes, lots of people don’t like that just stick to whatever narrative they prefer, or even whatever is fed to them. But looking critically at media is a vital survival skill these days.
Blindly accepting known partisan media on the very topic you know they can’t be objective about, is not that.
Western media is usually beholden to state department lines, and recieves partial funding. Moreover, western media is thoroughly under the control of wealthy capitalists laser-focusing on their own interests. There’s no such thing as “free” mass media.
Which state department do you mean? Are you aware that “western media” is spread over 2 dozen different countries? Sure, US corporate media is highly partisan and corrupt, but even the US has independent media, and many other countries have much more independent media. They’re certainly not as dominated by the state, let alone a single state, as they are in Russia. Not even in the US (although that’s certainly moving in that direction). And in every western country, even the US, the media will often disagree with or debunk the government’s narrative.
Private media is beholden to the wealthiest in society, and often recieves state funding as well. This is true across all western nations, including European nations. The few, minor independent news organizations that go against the grain are overwhelmed by the standard mass media.
Bullshit. Sure, in the US everything is corporate owned and controlled. But in Europe, there are media reporting every side of every story. My primary newspaper (NRC, a major Dutch newspaper) has no problem going against the grain when the situation calls for it. But even in the US with its highly partisan media, there are news outlets for every political leaning, and many do not blindly parrot the government narrative like Russian media does.
Whatever misgivings you have about western media (and some are definitely justified), it’s really no comparison to Russia, where a wrong word can have you falling out of a window. Putin brutally silences dissent in a way even Trump can only dream of.
Dutch media isn’t particularly different from US media. Further, the “every political leaning” really just translates to various flavors of right-wing, from SocDem to fascist. What gets boosted by private investors is what permeates discourse. Private media is no less biased than state media.
Dutch media is far less partisan than US media, which in turn is still far less state-controlled than Russian media. You’re fooling yourself if you want to pretend these are all the same.
Furthermore, SocDem is not right-wing by even the farthest stretch of the imagination. It’s moderate left. If you want further left than that, there’s still small indie media for you. If you consider every voice out there to be compromised and right-wing, maybe the problem is you.
NRC is not Partisan? LOL.
Dutch media copies US media to the tee.
The difference is that it only follows US democrat media,
until far-right movements popped up and one of them
created a ‘US republican outlet’ show.
There’s currently a wave of articles in the NRC going on about feminism,
for the millionth time, about violence against women,
because one teenage girl had been killed.
Meanwhile, in Palestine we have hundreds of thousands of women and children dying of a genocide
and it’s being completedly ignored.
And that’s deliberate to pull wool over your eyes from the genocide our country is complicit in.
If NRC condemned Israel like it does Russia, we’d have articles like these:
“Name of person is resisting Israel for its human rights violations”
“Israel keeps repeating it’s imperialistic tricks”
“Netanyahu’s borders doesn’t stop at NATO’s borders”
“The Liberal Party manoeuvres into the heart of a pro-Israeli network”
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera
And if NRC would be writing about Russia if it were Israel we’d have articles like these:
“Greater-Russia has deep historical roots”
“Russian parlement votes against the establishment of a Ukrainian state”
“Why did Russia attack Ukraine and twelve other question.”
“The Netherlands wants Russia to deliver proof that the murdered journalists were Azov nazis”
“Russia air strikes Lithuanian military targets”
“Putin’s long cherished air strike attack on Poland is also a welcoming diversion” “UK, France and Canada warn Russia that they will take concrete measures if Russia continues this war”
And the problem here is that Russia actually has a legitimate reason for their invasion where Israel does not.
When Ukraine got independent, pieces of Russia that the Soviet Union gave to Ukraine for administrative purposes came with it. It was accepted as Ukraine was thought to be a “sister nation” like Belgium to the Netherlands. Today Ukraine can no longer be trusted to safeguard its Russian population as it tries to join NATO and NATO is anti-Russia. Ukraine has been actively been suppressing its Russian population,
including but not limited to machine gunning civilians trying to enter voting booths for the demand of independence from Ukraine.
Russia’s response to that was demilitarization of Ukraine,
targeting military only, with a record low amount of civilians killed per soldier.
That’s very different from Netanyahu’s “Greater Israel” plan that tries to simply conquer 9 nations, most of them tacit allies, with zero historical roots to them, apart from parts of Palestine, but that already pales in comparison to the area south of Beersheba Israel already occupies that never were historically Israeli.
Hamas did a desperate attack on Israel as Netanyahu publicly displayed part of his Greater Israel plan at the UN.
Israel’s response to that is genocing, targeting civilians first and foremost.
Women, children and hospitals first.
If you know about the articles in NRC, you also know that they have many articles about Gaza, and yet you choose to lie about that. Why would you even think you can lie about that when I also have access to those articles?
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2025/08/23/wanhoop-in-gaza-stad-door-israelische-invasie-de-huidige-belegering-zal-leiden-tot-complete-vernietiging-a4903870
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2025/08/21/na-de-daverende-klap-van-de-raket-opent-israel-het-offensief-in-gaza-stad-a4903685
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2025/08/21/massa-arrestaties-in-het-verenigd-koninkrijk-wanneer-is-pro-palestijns-protest-terrorisme-a4903712
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2025/07/29/europees-geduld-met-israel-slinkt-maar-over-een-bescheiden-sanctie-is-eu-het-nog-niet-eens-a4901657
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2025/08/13/worden-de-palestijnen-diplomatiek-wisselgeld-voor-zuid-soedan-a4902927
You’re still equating private funding with independence. Further, social democrats are capitalists, by definition they are right wing. There are exceedingly few leftist voices except for small indie media, across the west, and these voices get drowned out by the huge private mass media corporations that are just mouthpieces for wealthy owners.
They exist, though. They’re worth listening to. Critically, of course, as with all media.
Yet they are also socialists. By definition. They’re trying to find a balance, and have at times been quite successful.
Seriously, read up on the history of socialism. There’s a lot more to it than you probably think.
“Social Democracy objectively represents the moderate wing of Fascism.” - J. V. Stalin
https://marxistleninist.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/bourgeois-democracy-and-fascism/
Eh… DemSoc is left wing while SocDem is basically welfare capitalism these days.
Read your own link, man. It calls Democratic Socialism a wing of Social Democracy. Also, why do you not also share the article about Social Democracy itself?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
Now, you would be correct if you merely argued that many Labour movements dipped to moderate right with their embrace of neoliberalism in the 1990s, but outside of that, they’ve been moderate left. But SocDem has always been considered various degrees of left. Sometimes not even moderately so.
The netherlands are absolutely not exempt from this phenomenon. It affects every country where capital stands above political power and the media, including yours.
https://swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/
None of that confirms the claim that western media is as unfree as Russian media. Sure there are concerns, but even then, none of the quoted percentages are 100%; the other voices do exist. And regardless of the power of money, there are many journalists out there risking their lives to report the truth. Look at Gaza, for example. Many western governments wanted to ignore it but now can’t because media keep reporting about the atrocities.
Please tell me this is a bit
Israel has murdered more journalists than Putin could dream of, with full support of Europe.
And the media report it. That is my point.
Western governments are (too) slowly changing their stance on Israel and Gaza because western media keep reporting about it.
Pretty fucked to say that murdering journalists isn’t “brutally silencing dissent” just because other sources report on it, sometime. Do you apply the same standard to Russia?
Besides, the western media have done everything they can to downplay it without losing credibility entirely.
Bullshit
Yeah. Is that something you wanted to deny? Or are you desperately trying to put words in my mouth when I said the exact opposite?
Then you’re reading the wrong media. I’ve been reading about these atrocities constantly.
It’s happening. Dutch government just fell apart over this (and the Dutch government has been pretty awful in their blind support of Israel so far).
You need to come out of your bubble and inform yourself.
This coming from someone who was perfectly happy using the Ukrainian military as a source. Are you going to also try to argue that they are independent from the state?
I don’t know what you’re talking about, and I doubt you do. You’re here defending Tass as a source.
I’m talking about here https://lemmy.ml/post/35157502/20675876.
So yes, I do know what I’m talking about, and I suspect you know to, and are just pretending not to because you can’t actually defend yourself on this.
Against what? Against vibes? Against Russians trying to defend their state media? Do you have even the slightest awareness of context here?
What do you expect to accomplish by playing dumb?
Good one! 😂😂
Definitely better than Russian media.